I am Deborah

[Deborah]

Deborah means "the bee"; spiritually this means "Seeking One". In 1999 my life verse became "And you shall seek me, and find me, when you shall search for me with all your heart." Je 29:13

"Wherefore, my beloved, as you always have obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Philippians 2:12

My husband married a Christian Conservative Republican who believed she espoused all the correct doctrines and rhetoric. We were married in the church and attended church all the years of raising our children.

I have always lived contrary to this world's notions, not necessarily consciously or deliberately, but more by compulsion. When I took exception to the treatment of my eldest son in public school, I chose to homeschool the younger two. I will always maintain that I was the real student. It was during the years of homeschooling that I was privileged to meet and hear Dean Gotcher speaking about his paper: Dialectic and Praxis: Diaprax and the End of the Ages First encounter with truth.

If I knew, previously, that I was not like others, it was at this time that I began to understand and accept that this was so. It was becoming more difficult for me to maintain the Christian Conservative Republican facade within my home, with my husband and children.

"...the author who benefits you most is not the one who tells you something you did not know before, but the one who gives expression to the truth that has been dumbly struggling in you for utterance." Oswald Chambers

I have always lived contrary to this world's notions, not necessarily consciously or deliberately, but more by compulsion. When I took exception to the treatment of my eldest son in public school, I chose to homeschool the younger two. I will always maintain that I was the real student. It was during the years of homeschooling that I was privileged to meet and hear Dean Gotcher speaking about his paper: Dialectic and Praxis: Diaprax and the End of the Ages

When our youngest child graduated, I stopped going to church. My sense of truth made the dribble peddled at church intolerable. My cancer diagnosis in 2003 which saw my pastors indicate that they had more faith in the medical establishment than God was the beginning of the end of my traditional church experience. Having little faith in the medical community, I went looking for alternatives to the widely-accepted practices of surgery, radiation and chemotherapy. What I found confirmed what I believed, causing outrage and anger. Truth. I was slipping off the slope: if the medical establishment, the pharmaceutical industry and the food industry sanctioned by the government could perpetrate such lies and deception against the people, and we believed it, then what else was lies and deception? When you are ready and willing to ask the question, be prepared. The floodgates will open and be unstoppable.

Certain that faith in God was not the same as faith in the medical community, I began reading Tolstoy and found myself agreeing with him that our Bible, and ultimately the Christian religion, had been hijacked. More truth. My continued reading about alternative cancer cures introduced me to Dr. Lorraine Day And when I heard her as a guest on The French Connection, I went to her site and began reading her postings of Biblical and political truth, which were paralleling what I was hearing and reading at The French Connection.

I am a truth seeker. And, God has never failed me.

So today I find myself believing in the seventh-day Sabbath and giants. And I am wondering how others who have been led to this truth deal with family members who just aren't ready to hear this. How do you keep a Saturday Sabbath with a family who has been honouring Sunday? Even if I don't expect them to accept my tenets, is it reasonable to expect that they should honour my request to live true to my conscience? My husband didn't marry a woman of this belief; how is this fair? I homeschooled my children to raise them according to the tenets of my faith and ultimately taught them everything I no longer believe. With such confessions I am destroying the foundation upon which our marriage and the lives of our children have been built.

[WeightofAudio]

Deborah,
It can be beyond frustrating getting such points across to people, and can feel even all the more frustrating when they are those you have a more intimate/lifelong kind of relationship with. I am A rh negative, myself, and I agree with much of what has been said, in that we seem to find eachother, to commune, cope, and identify. In our scenario here, this is not just as "hybrids", but Ultimately has Believers in the Almighty. His Blood is what Matters.

Indeed, it is reasonable that they should honor your choices. And you know, you have evidence, very "telling" evidence, to calmly point out, regarding why many traditions, including honoring Sunday, are church-borne. Born from churches that have openly stated that their traditions are above His Word. How should this not offend a Believer? Indeed, these things often start as seeds planted in others, which may grow at a later time. Most are simply not ready to admit that giants once walked the earth, and that the fabric of this society is evil.
Peace in Yahushua Messiah,
-Jon

[Bean]

high-fives on the home-schooling and no-doctor-going..

hopefully more each day are being awakened to the realities of those two deeply ingrained institutions (Satanic machines) of traditional medicine (sorcery) and government-standard education (false teaching).

glad you were brought out of their trappings, and i pray your health has been returned (and if there are still needs, i would suggest addressing the practicalities as soon as possible with Prodigal Son, as he is the equivalent of an exhaustive encylopedia of natural healing agents and their implimentations).

Dean Gotcher's booklet looks pretty interesting, from what i could tell in a brief scan.. i like that he apparently addresses the deceptive nature of "feelings".

i think maybe as spiritually sensitive people we find ourselves with perhaps less of a "feeling" of being different, and more of a "knowledge" of being different.. as you mentioned, not consciously choosing to accept feelings, but rather being "compelled" to hold certain standards, which by nature cause a divide between us and the rest of society.

after leaving Catholic church at around 15, i didn't go to church even remotely regularly anywhere.. then after accepting Yahushua as my Savior, i tried out some churches.. still have not found one to attend regularly, and i think those of us in that position are growing in number as the "dribble peddled at church" is sadly becoming more of a flood raging.

"if the medical establishment, the pharmaceutical industry and the food industry sanctioned by the government could perpetrate such lies and deception against the people, and we believed it, then what else was lies and deception?"

if that level of loyalty to the reality of truth could be liquified, i'd perhaps vote for putting it in the water supply, spraying it from jets, and fertilizing crops with it.

i was not aware that Deborah means 'bee'.. after reading your post i went to check out the definition.. it's pretty neat considering Deborah's position and actions as the Judge of Israel.. here's some of what i found at blueletterbible.org

Strong's Concordance :: Dĕbowrah : proper feminine noun : "bee" :: the same as dĕbowrah : feminine noun : 1) bee :: from dabar : verb : 1) to speak, declare, converse, command, promise, warn, threaten, sing

Gesenius's Lexicon ::

the weekly sabbath observance, for believers, is probably the commandment most successfully twisted by the enemy.. a couple of years ago, when i started a new job at a Christian company, i was asked why i chose to observe the seventh-day sabbath.. i remember answering something like "well it is the 4th commandment, and after reading the 10 commandments so many times, i was moved to want to keep them all".. seems so simple.. but Satan is so effective when people are so willing to be affected.

your concerns about your husband specifically, are very interesting.. your sincere desire to be a good wife to your husband is really rare to see in a world where so often it seems people rush to the cliff's edge, where the person keeping the sabbath is 'right' and the person who isn't is 'wrong'.

i imagine you've tried many routes to a solution already, and that you haven't given up on earnest prayer either.. i did want to ask what length of time you'd been working to keep the weekly sabbath, if it was since sometime in '03 or if it was sometime later.. either way i'm sure you've found a way to observe the sabbath in spirit regardless of the day's activities you may have to perform because of the situation at home.

we know as wives we are bound to submit to the authority of our husbands, just as we as believers are bound to submit to the authority of our Savior.. and perhaps, with a husband who does not keep the sabbath, that submission of authority can be perceived as a possible error, because it seems to conflict with keeping one of the 10 Commands.

we know from Matthew 12, Mark 3 and Luke 6 that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.. perhaps you have already (and i'd gather it's likely) considered that being a good wife to your husband by submitting authority even concerning the sabbath, is the right thing to do to effectively 'do good on the sabbath'..

wondering if there are certain points of interest that make it especially trying for you both, where the weekly sabbath is concerned.. if so, maybe slowly considering each of the most frequent areas of contention, in light of what causes the conflicts, how peace could be made, and the effects the peace made would have on your sabbath experience, as well as your husband's, is one way to gain some ground in a solution maybe.

hopefully we can continue to discuss this, and i pray that our Heavenly Father guides you and keeps you both continually through this leg of your journey together, and always, in Yahushua our Savior.

also, we have a Wordpress mirror site for this network where full-length articles that originate here are posted.. not sure if that is where you linked from.. but in the short time you've been here, i've really enjoyed your writing, and you seem to write what you know instead of what you think you know (always a blessing), and i'd like to suggest, if you have the time and inclination, writing some articles which could be posted on the blog, which reaches a much larger audience of readers.

as for giants.. they can be tough lol.. they really can be.. and sometimes it's like cutting into stone with a spoon to do the mental (and spiritual) gymnastics it takes to witness a solid evidenced truth to someone who is 95% positive they disagree with you once the height of those individuals, let alone their origin, is mentioned.

maybe one thing i can say, is that from my experience the last couple years.. physically it is the process of boiling it down for people that seems to help the most.. breaking things down to those basic cause and effect levels in the realm of logic.. i saw especially good results with this when explaining to someone how giant stones (like those of the pre-flood world) could be moved with sound.. going down to the common glass of water on a speaker, and how the glass will ultimately be vibrated into motion by the sound of the music.. the person got it, at least on some level, i could see the recognition click over in his eyes.. it can be draining but still, in the end, all those seeds sown in love will have been worth the work to plant.

once again, very glad to have you here, and looking forward to growing in the grace of Yahushua.

[Cyprium]

"When I took exception to the treatment of my eldest son in public school, I chose to homeschool the younger two."

Awesome Deborah...your children are very blessed in that you made this decision.

"When our youngest child graduated, I stopped going to church. My sense of truth made the dribble peddled at church intolerable."

I think one thing most of us here have come to understand is that today's churches are a poor shadow of what instruction in His Word ought to be. He has provided such limitless and awe-inspiring instruction and it's sad that half of it is obscured in shaky translations and the other half is altogether ignored in church buildings. Thankfully...He'll get the truth to His people as long as they are willing to find it.

"My cancer diagnosis in 2003 which saw my pastors indicate that they had more faith in the medical establishment than God was the beginning of the end of my traditional church experience."

Amazing, isn't it, that those who are supposed to be leaders of the flock and who tell their congregants ever Sunday to "trust God"...will, without a single flinch of their conscience, choose a doctor over Him when it comes to healing a physical body?

"When you are ready and willing to ask the question, be prepared. The floodgates will open and be unstoppable."

You can say that again..

"So today I find myself believing in the seventh-day Sabbath and giants. And I am wondering how others who have been led to this truth deal with family members who just aren't ready to hear this. How do you keep a Saturday Sabbath with a family who has been honouring Sunday? Even if I don't expect them to accept my tenets, is it reasonable to expect that they should honour my request to live true to my conscience? My husband didn't marry a woman of this belief; how is this fair? I homeschooled my children to raise them according to the tenets of my faith and ultimately taught them everything I no longer believe. With such confessions I am destroying the foundation upon which our marriage and the lives of our children have been built."


I'm sure that you have attempted to help this situation in a number of ways and maybe my advice isn't very helpful...it's certainly true that the closer you are to the one hearing the message, the harder it can be to deliver. I would, perhaps attempt to remove all of the emotions that go with this (frustration, anger, hurt..etc) and with cool logic, begin to present evidence of your point that is solid and irrefutable. Retain that coolness ...don't break and begin arguing.

Try otherwise to not make it a point of constant debate..let it rest. Honor the sabbath but try not to make it a point of contention (if that is in your power to do)...soft words can help cool off irritation.

Most importantly...Seek Him..He's got the answers and He certainly won't let you down as you try to live your life to please Him.

I sure don't know if any of that is much help but you have my prayers in facing this situation...it's not always easy being in the world and yet not a part of it.

[Deborah]

Indeed, these things often start as seeds planted in others, which may grow at a later time. Most are simply not ready to admit that giants once walked the earth, and that the fabric of this society is evil.

Jon, I agree that acceptance of an idea can only start after planting of the idea, and it is with this thought in mind that I persist. I have learned that a meek offering of the idea is better received that a passionate beating. :)

Earlier this year, in another context, I listened as another believer stated emphatically and repeatedly that ours was a loving God who would not destroy, kill, or burn His children. My relationship with God has always been somewhat ambivalent, so I have been wrestling with this new idea, to be able to believe it is true. The story of fallen angels and giants explains why a supposed loving God would command His creation to kill, so it has not been difficult for me to believe this is truth.

I just wanted to reassure you that you are not alone and that many of us are dealing with very similar issues.

Ryan, it is because I so totally know that I am not alone that I spend so much time scouring the web seeking for those like minds! :)

"And [Elijah] said, ...I, even I only, am left...And the Lord said unto him, ...Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal and every mouth which has not kissed him." Is 19:9-18

Strong's Concordance :: Dĕbowrah : proper feminine noun : "bee" :: the same as dĕbowrah : feminine noun : 1) bee :: from dabar : verb : 1) to speak, declare, converse, command, promise, warn, threaten, sing

Bean, I was not aware of these meanings of Deborah. Singing was my passion for years until radiation and Tamoxifen caused irreparable damage to my vocal chords. My consolation is that early after my treatment, but before permanent damage was done, I achieved my long-carried dream of going into a recording studio.

...i did want to ask what length of time you'd been working to keep the weekly sabbath, if it was since sometime in '03 or if it was sometime later.. either way i'm sure you've found a way to observe the sabbath in spirit regardless of the day's activities you may have to perform because of the situation at home.

When others' lives are too full and demanding, when my needs and their time don't coincide, God is ALWAYS there for me. Except sometimes, I am sorry to say, that isn't enough and I, like others begin looking to others for answers and encouragement.

I am one of those "legalistic" believers who has believed all along that the OT and the Ten Commandments are relevant. It has only been in the last year that I made a decision, shared with my family, that I was now purposing to live true to my conscience. And only since March or April of this year that I have actively sought information about other believers who may be keeping Saturday Sabbath, as well as the feasts of the OT.

My husband has been working overtime, which means Saturday (and sometimes Sunday), so I started taking advantage of this to "keep the Sabbath". He was raised Episcopalian and while he doesn't demonstrate a strong faith or interest in conforming to Biblical doctrines, Sunday as "the day" of worship is deeply entrenched as part of his foundational beliefs.

My biggest problem is one of logistics: we have one car which my husband must take for work (60 miles one way). Friday evening or Saturday have been our normal shopping days, for I refused to dishonour the Sabbath when we were observing Sunday, by shopping or doing any unnecessary work. Now, my dilemma is that if I honour a Friday evening to Saturday evening Sabbath and honour Sunday as my husband's Sabbath, the shopping gets relegated to him, requiring him to stop on his way home from work. (He gets up at 3AM, leaves by 4AM and returns between 5-6PM - later if he has to grocery shop.) I am waiting on God for this one, doing the best I can until. The conversation about the possibility of getting a second car has begun.

...maybe my advice isn't very helpful..

Cyprium, I appreciate anyone who is willing to "hear" me and respond regarding matters closest to my heart! :)

I have one friend, in particular, but I'm sure there are more I don't know of, who holds her version and understanding of the Bible very sacred, and refuses to hear the true words.

Beliefs are the foundation that shapes our lives (you all know this already, don't you?), and many people are just not ready to rock those foundations; it is very fearful to think that you have been living a lie, even in one area.

I had been skeptical for some years, but what I learned as a result of my cancer diagnosis shattered my foundations and I have spent the last seven years determined to confront and face truth, God willing, that I may overcome the fear that made me a controlling and angry person. God delivered us into freedom; lies and deceit work to enslave us.

Thank you all for your kind responses. I was having second thoughts after posting this; thinking that perhaps I should delete it. It is so hard to be so vulnerable but it's a risk I take to confront fear and find truth. Thank you.

[Prodigal Son]

"many people are just not ready to rock those foundations; it is very fearful to think that you have been living a lie, even in one area."

it can be hard to see fear have control over people so that it is preferable to them to hold on to their beliefs rather than face a hard truth. it is especially hard knowing that the enemy is satisfied when fear is successful in keeping the truth from people. i try to reason to those who fear some harder truth that there is nothing and no one worth fearing besides Him and if we fear Him, we need fear nothing else.

i am glad you decided to post this. vulnerability is not such a bad thing. i am certain not one here has not had to struggle in their goal to becoming closer with Him.