A fallen spirit gaining access to one of Messiah's followers is a notion which perhaps many are unwilling to objectively explore. This idea usually faces rejection based upon the premise that an evil spirit and the Holy Spirit cannot both occupy a believer. I would like to point out some specifics that address why this is not the case, but first i'd like to briefly examine the word "possessed".

"Possessed" is found 15 times in the New Testament.

Of these 15 ocurrences, 13 refer to what is commonly called "demonic possession".

11 of these 13 occurrences are translated from Strong's Greek word 1139 "daimonizomai".

Each of these 11 uses of diamonizomai is translated as a phrase, as opposed to a singular word.

The 11 phrases translated from 'daimonizomai' can be found in the following verses:

"possessed with devils".. Matthew 4:24, 8:16, 8:28 and Mark 1:32
"possessed of the devils".. Matthew 8:33 and Luke 8:36
"possessed with a devil".. Matthew 9:32 and 12:22
"possessed with the devil".. Mark 5:15, 5:16 and 5:18

Daimonizomai is a middle voice verb with one singular definition: "to be under the power of a demon".

The other 2 verses which mention possession by fallen spirits are in the book of Acts.

"..unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed.." [8:7]
"..damsel possessed with a spirit of divination.." [16:16]

Both of these verses render "possessed" as a single word, translated from Strong's Greek word 2192 "echo". Echo is a common verb, found over 600 times in the NT, and means "have, hold, own, possess, be closely joined to".

The other 2 instances of "possessed" in the NT are in Acts 4:32 and 1Cr 7:30, where we find the participle "hyparchonta" and the verb "katecho", respectively. These 2 verses do not reference spiritual possession, but rather possession of goods or things.

At this point, all of this information may seem unnecessary, however it's important to point out the fact that in scripture there are not myriad ambiguous hypotheticals.. but rather infinite solid truths.. and that in the New Testament when someone is noted as being "possessed" of devils, it means just that.

Perhaps when we consider this condition of being possessed by fallen spirits, we assume that those who are inhabited by unclean spirits are themselves strictly the worst of the worst of humanity.. but before resigning yourself to that assumption.. give quiet consideration to the following..

Luke 9:38-42


"And, behold,
a man of the company cried out,
saying, Master, I beseech thee,
look upon my son:
for he is mine only child."

[ a man's son, his only child.. ]

"And, lo, a spirit taketh him,
and he suddenly crieth out;
and it teareth him that he foameth again,
and bruising him hardly departeth from him."

[ possessed by an evil spirit.. ]

"And I besought thy disciples to cast him out;
and they could not."

[ which His disciples could not cast out.. ]

"And Jesus answering said,
O faithless and perverse generation,
how long shall I be with you, and suffer you?"

[ because their faith was lacking. ]

"Bring thy son hither."

"And as he was yet a coming,
the devil threw him down, and tare [him]."

[ the demon visibly afflicts the child in front of Yahushua, His followers and the multitude.. ]

"And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit,
and healed the child, and
delivered him again to his father."

[ Yahushua casts out the spirit and heals the child. ]

"Child" in the last verse is Strong's Greek word 3816 "pais" a noun which means "a child, infants, children"

Think about that for a moment.. we just read about what is most certainly a young child (not quite the "worst of the worst" of humanity).. obviously violently possessed by a devil.. who could not be cast out, not for the child's lack of faith in Yahushua, but for the disciples lack of faith in Him.

Do we as believers ever want to find ourselves in the same position as the disciples were when Yahushua said of a little child, 'Bring him to Me', because they were so lacking in faith that He could not work through them to heal a little child overtaken and hurt by the enemy..

Perhaps imagine that little child is your only son or daughter.. would you be willing to let Messiah work through you to cast the enemy out of your little one.. even if it took fasting and prayer.. or would you let your only child suffer needlessly because you could not accept the fact that a child could be possessed by a devil..

"And they brought unto Him also infants, that He would touch them: but when [His] disciples saw [it], they rebuked them. But Jesus called them [unto him], and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God."
[Luke 18:15,16]

Would any believer argue the fact that children are protected by the One who created them.. we just saw how a child could be possessed by a demon, then delivered by Messiah.. and we know that if we are not at least like little children then we have a shallow grasp on humility, not to mention the Kingdom.

"At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me."
[Matthew 18:1-5]

Often it is said that believers can become vulnerable to "demonic oppression", but are impervious to "demonic possession".. though that idea really falls short considering the account of the possessed child in Luke 9 (and Matthew 17).. perhaps more often it is said that believers cannot become vulnerable to demonic possession because the Holy Spirit cannot reside within the same believer in which an unholy spirit resides.

The idea that "good and bad" or "light and darkness" cannot both be present at the same time is not found in the bible.. 'light and darkness' do not agree with one another, but they do co-exist within the same individual.. if this were not the case, then all believers would be perfect and without sin.. sin is evil, and yet we as believers will sin at times, even though the Holy Spirit indwells.

"..if thine right eye offend thee, pluck it out.." [Mat 5:29, 18:19, Mar 9:47]

We are called to continually separate ourselves from sin.. first and foremost the sin that originates in our own flesh, which is not yet redeemed, and is still carrying a weak human sin nature

"..the spirit [is] indeed willing, but the flesh is weak.." [Mat 26:41]

When we accept that we are hopeless sinners.. then turn and accept Yahushua as our savior.. He forgives us and washes away those sins.. from then on, we are told, we will still sin.. but that we should repent of our sins, instead of willfully remaining in them. Unrepentant willing sin can become a demonic stronghold in a believer.

This is not put forth to frighten (we are called to fear only the Almighty), but to bring to light the truth of our condition as believers in this fallen world.. and also to remind, that as believers we have the ability through the Holy Spirit to be delivered by the authority of Yahushua our savior.

We are in a physically unredeemed state though, in a spiritually wicked world of which we desire no part.. but all believers are in different phases and stages in their walk of faith.

Often new believers who have been delivered out of occult practices will struggle especially hard with the reappearance in their lives of former sins.. the enemy never wants to let go of someone it once had hold of, and will fight to regain a foothold in the life of a new believer.. during this time it can be touch-and-go for some as they claw to cling to the cross of salvation while their former masters work tirelessly to recapture their souls.

Did any of us here wake up perfect the day after accepting Messiah..

At this time i would like to offer up the reminder that as those born again in Messiah, we are called to be compassionate teachers of the gospel, loving of each other, and workers together in furthering the Kingdom of our Master.. none of which can be best accomplished by turning a blind eye to the truth in His scripture.

Consider the only son of the man who cried out to Yahushua for help.. the lack of faith of the disciples in that situation.. and what you would do if you were in their shoes.

"Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves."

"He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me. And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through Thy name.

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven."
[Luke 10:16-20]

"Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."
[Eph 6:10-13]

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questions to consider:

do people who trust in Messiah seek out deliverance from demons.. or do only people who do not trust Him seek out deliverance from demons?

when He sent out the disciples.. did they go out to heal and cast demons out of those who believed on the power of Messiah, or those who did not?

the suggestion that the healing and deliverance would have been primarily for those who did not believe on Messiah raises the question of why Messiah would assign a fruitless and detrimental task to His disciples, since casting demons out of the lost only yields more demons coming back into the person.. something i think we all agree that Messiah would not like.

in Matthew 12 and Luke 11 Yahushua describes what happens when a devil is cast out of a non-believer:

M12:43: "When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none."

44: "Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished."

45: "Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation."

L11:24: "When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out."

25: "And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished."

26: "Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first."

is this really something Messiah would charge His disciples to do.. to go out and deliver non-believers from demons so that more demons could return to non-believers? this doesn't make sense..

but commanding His disciples to go out and deliver believers from demons does make sense.. because as He said "He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth." (Luke 11:23)

it would not profit Messiah, or His kingdom, for the lost to be worse off after He came than they were before He came.. especially since the lost are who He seeks.

on the other hand, it would be highly profitable for demons to be cast out of believers.. this would require believers (since no one in the flesh is perfect yet) to reject lingering and detrimental bonds of sin.

'Hi, deliver me from evil': Church sets up an exorcist hotline to deal with demand

The Catholic Church has established an exorcist hotline in Milan, its biggest diocese, to cope with demand. Monsignor Angelo Mascheroni, the diocese’s chief exorcist since 1995, said the curia had also appointed twice as many exorcists to cope with a doubling in the number of requests for help over 15 years.

“We get many requests for names, addresses and phone numbers; that’s why we’ve set up a switchboard in the curia from Monday to Friday from 2.30pm to 5pm,” he told the chiesadimilano website.

“People in need can call and will be able to find a priest in the same area who doesn’t have to travel too far.” And to that end, the number of demon-busting priests on call has increased from six to 12.

The Monsignor said he knew of one exorcist who had been seeing up to 120 people a day. “But with so little time per client he was only able to offer a quick blessing. That’s not enough,” he said. ”There should be two to four appointments a day, no more, otherwise it’s too much.”

It’s not clear why the number of suspected possessions has risen so sharply. But Monsignor Mascheroni said that part of the increase might be explained by the rising numbers of parents having difficulty controlling disobedient teenagers.

“Usually the parents call [because they are] concerned about a child who won’t go to school or who’s taking drugs or rebelling. In reality it’s not a demon, but when they’re 18 years old young people don’t want to be told what to do.”

He warned that many worried and vulnerable people were at risk from charlatans. “Magicians demand money; we … give our time, give benediction … all for free. It couldn’t be any other way.”

The Monsignor said that all those who sought help were welcomed. But he added: “The real diabolical phenomena, at least in my experience, are very rare.” He said that “mental phenomena, mental and psychiatric disorders” were often to blame for unusual behaviour.

Not all Catholic exorcists take such a pragmatic approach, however. Father Gabriele Amorth, who was the Vatican’s chief exorcist for 25 years, claims to have dealt with 70,000 cases of demonic possession.

Father Amorth said that sex abuse scandals in the Roman Catholic Church were proof that  “the Devil is at work inside the Vatican”. He also claimed that satanic behaviour lay behind Vatican attempts to “cover up” the deaths of Alois Estermann, then commander of the Swiss Guard, his wife and another Swiss Guard, Corporal Cedric Tornay, in 1998.

Father Amorth also took a dim view of fantasy novels and yoga. Practising the latter, he once warned, was “satanic; it leads to evil just like reading Harry Potter”.

The act of exorcism: Catholic practice

Defined by the Catholic Encyclopaedia as “the act of driving out, or warding off, demons, or evil spirits, from persons, places, or things which are believed to be possessed or infested by them, or are liable to become victims or instruments of their malice,” exorcism has been practised by the Church for centuries, but its use has increased dramatically over the last half century.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/hi-deliver-me-from-e...

If a person dreams and Yahushua tells them that "if they do not remove the demon(s) inside them and allow His spirit to occupy their body then he will be judged for all the sins that the evil spirit (inside his host body) has done as well, even if their spirit is reasonably (not perfectly) clean".

Is this true ?

If yes, then how can one remove the negative entity because it will always put up a fight especially if the host is caught up in a Generation Curse ?

The following morning the person prays to Yahushua begging Him to remove the entity, yet later on, an hour later, the guy blacks out and manages to write down 'Light from all things' like the daemons are planning to just suck the life out of all living things around us.

When one is in such a dark curse, is a prayer each week enough or are they d@mned no matter how hard they try and beg for His everlasting mercy ?

i just feel time is seriously running out now.

why would you need to fast to get rid of a demon? just because it's less pleasurable to be in a starving body?

Already addressed those and brought up 1 Enoch away from tnl since they were asked maybe, but what if there is a left side 15:10-12 here that's relevant and there are some demons with a lot of hunger and thirst? How interesting if Matthew 17:21 is missing from several Bibles?

http://www.qbible.com/enoch/15.html

If a person dreams and Yahushua tells them that "if they do not remove the demon(s) inside them and allow His spirit to occupy their body then he will be judged for all the sins that the evil spirit (inside his host body) has done as well, even if their spirit is reasonably (not perfectly) clean".

Yahushua never commanded anyone who was possessed to "get rid of the demon"...He cast it out of them. Human beings are incapable of overcoming these entities. It is only through Yahushua that they are cast out.

There are no "relatively clean" spirits, (let alone perfectly clean) in the human race other than Yahushua. The only clean spirit a person can be filled with is the Holy Spirit. Without the covering blood of Messiah, one's own sin (even if it were only one and from our perspective fairly mild) would utterly damn their soul. The sins of any inhabiting spirit could not add anything to an eternal death sentence.

The only thing to know about salvation or damnation is that it relies upon the acceptance or rejection of Messiah, 100%.

Yahushua will not turn His back on a prayer in faith...but In Faith you must pray and In Faith you must fast, if fasting is called for.

Faith does not mean believing that Messiah exists or that He died for sins. Faith means trusting that He is true and faithful and will perform what He said. Faith is trusting that His sacrifice is payment for your personal sins.

Trust is an expectation. Your expectation reflects what you have had faith in. In praying that a demon depart...you demand it of the entity in Yahushua's name and by His power, and you fully expect that demon to submit, because he must. That is the critical element that those in the scripture Jacob posted lacked. He told them they lacked faith when they commanded the demon depart.

Everyone struggles with faith because as sin natured beings, we almost can't help from being pulled toward faith in what We control, rather than what He can control. This hindrance is why those seeking deliverance from spirits often seek faithful believers to intervene for them and cast the demon from them in Yahushua's name on their behalf. The presence of a demon is a challenge to rational thinking and faith.

As for praying once a week....every believer Should be in a constant state of prayer in a sense. Certainly we all need to be in focused communication with our Creator daily... but even going about mundane daily things, we ae to continually seek Him and His guidance in everything. That might not be the kindof prayer most think of when they talk about praying...but it's leaving the door of communication open in all we say and do and think. It's what it means to "Walk" with Him.

Tristran Hpeburn said:

If a person dreams and Yahushua tells them that "if they do not remove the demon(s) inside them and allow His spirit to occupy their body then he will be judged for all the sins that the evil spirit (inside his host body) has done as well, even if their spirit is reasonably (not perfectly) clean".

Is this true ?

If yes, then how can one remove the negative entity because it will always put up a fight especially if the host is caught up in a Generation Curse ?

The following morning the person prays to Yahushua begging Him to remove the entity, yet later on, an hour later, the guy blacks out and manages to write down 'Light from all things' like the daemons are planning to just suck the life out of all living things around us.

When one is in such a dark curse, is a prayer each week enough or are they d@mned no matter how hard they try and beg for His everlasting mercy ?

i just feel time is seriously running out now.

@Cyprium.

Thanks for the help. It has made me feel better.

When you say "it's what it means to "Walk" with Him." is it adequate to think 'what would please Yahushua' when a choice arises ? This way, every thought, every decision throughout every day is dependent on staying on the long narrow path towards Him.

Example: speaking the truth might hurt a persons' morale. However, speaking the truth pleases Yahushua rather than speaking a lie.

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