Angels and the Mysterious Sin of Sodom

[Cyprium]

It is almost an automatic reference to homosexuality and homosexual activity in these days to refer to "Sodomy". When most Christian clergy refer to "the sin of Sodom", this is what is normally meant and it is thus usually taught that the wickedness which brought about the destruction of Sodom and the neighboring Gomorrah was sexual immorality of a homosexual nature.

The one, and the only real basis for the connection between homosexuality and the destruction of Sodom is the description of events given in Genesis which follow two angels taking up lodging in Lot's home. These angels, referred to as simply "men" in certain instances throughout the account, are sought after by the residents of the city (male residents it would seem) for illicit sexual encounters. Obviously the angels were in such a form as to be obviously male...as to whether or not they were obviously not human, that is made less clear.

"Now the two messengers came to Sedom in the evening and Lowt was sitting in the gate of Sedom. When Lowt saw them, he rose to meet them and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground. And he said, "Here now, my masters, please turn in to your servant's house and spend the night and wash your feet. Then you may rise early and go on your way." And they said, "No, but we will spend the night in the open square." But he insisted strongly, so they turned in to him and entered his house. Then he made them a banquet and baked unleavened bread and they ate. Now before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sedom, both old and young, all the people from every quarter, surrounded the house. And they called to Lowt and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may know them carnally." So Lowt went out to them through the doorway, shut the door behind him, and said, "Please, my brothers, do not do so wickedly! See now! I have two daughters who have not known a man. I pray, let me bring them out to you and you may do to them as you wish. Only do nothing to these men since this is the reason they have come under the shadow of my roof." And they said, "Stand back!" Then they said, "This one came in to stay here and he keeps acting as a judge. Now we will deal worse with you than with them." So they pressed hard against the man Lowt and came near to break down the door. But the men reached out their hands and pulled Lowt into the house with them and shut the door. And they struck the men who were at the doorway of the house with blindness, both small and great, so that they became weary trying to find the door" - Genesis 19:1-11

The difficulty with making a sure case for the sin of Sodom being one of a primarily homosexual nature comes in references to it outside of the initial account, particularly in Jude.

And the angles who did not keep their proper domain but left their own abode He has reserved in eternal chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day, as Sedom and Amorah and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. -Jude 6,7

There are two important points to notice in these verses in Jude. It would seem at first glance, and without using references outside of the New Testament that we have a very strange comparison being made. Here is a comparison between fallen angels and the sin for which Sodom and Gomorrah were judged: "AS Sedom and Amorah (Sodom and Gomorrah) ...IN SIMILAR MANNER TO THESE ("these" being angels which kept not their first estate), having given themselves over to sexual immorality."

It would be odd, then, to imagine that the comparison being made had something to do with homosexuality. Did any angels fall into transgression because of homosexual relationships? Most ,i think, could agree that there is no basis anywhere to support a correlation between the fall of angels and a sin of homosexuality, but there is some manner of sexual sin alluded to here. The exact reference is to "going after strange flesh." The exact connotation in Greek is: going after strange (heteros - other, different) flesh.

Ironically, the very word in Greek used here: "heteros" is a root used today in the term "heterosexual" to specifically refer to normal, opposite sex relationships, as meaning that the sexes involved are "different" from each other as opposed to "homosexual" where the connotation is that the sexes are the same: homo= same. The very root words of the text of this verse are diametrically opposed to the correlation of homosexuality and the sin of Sodom.

What the sin is then, in actuality, is not that we have individuals going after same sex partners, but that they are going after a kind of flesh or body which is different than their own. This would never make sense simply confined to humanity...outside of gender differences which are, of course, an absolute necessity for procreation, not an aberration...what great difference of physicality could there be to constitute a mortal sin should that boundary be crossed? Furthermore..we still have the problem of the angels. What do they have to do with any of this?

The connection between fallen angels and the sin of Sodom is made again in 2 Peter...

For if Yahuwah did not spare the angels who sinned, but put them into the deepest abyss of she'owl and delivered them into chains of darkness to be reserved for judgment, and did not spare the ancient world but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the irreverent and turning the cities of Sedom and Amorah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making an example to those who afterward would live impiously and delivered righteous Lowt, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked -2 Peter 2: 4-7

One might just conclude that there is no connection of the two subject matters mentioned here (angels and the sin of Sodom) It is rarely the case in scripture, however, that multiple unrelated concepts are introduced in proximity to each other in this way, and of course coupling that with the Jude verses, which are unambiguous in their comparison of the subjects...the most logical answer that the same comparison is being made here in 2 Peter. It goes slightly further in demystifying the underlying reasoning for the comparison than Jude does, in fact. Here, we might not see just two subjects being compared, but three...the third being the world before the flood and the state of wickedness it was in which brought that flood on. This seeming third subject matter is not, however, a separate reference and here is where the puzzle pieces are merged to make a clear and obvious picture.

For those already sufficiently familiar with 1 Enoch, there should be no difficulty in coming to the logical answer as to what sin is being punished which applies to both angles and the city of Sodom. For those believers who have been taught and rigidly accept the teaching that 1 Enoch is not canonical and therefor not true or acceptable as scripture, i challenge you to rigorously test that conviction against the simplest of logical conclusions one can come to on this matter.

I Enoch provides a concise, consistent and thorough background to the verses in Jude and 2 Peter which simply can't be ignored for it's blatant treatment of this exact subject matter and it leaves little room to doubt that Jude and Peter were very familiar with the story described in 1 Enoch and referred back to it. If it is not enough that the subject matter is exactly the same, one needs to also recall that Jude himself acknowledges Enoch as the original author of an exact 1 Enoch quote in his writings.

Here is the comparison of the subject of the sin of the angels in the New Testament and 1 Enoch...

The Sin

It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful. And when the angels, the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamored of them, saying to each other, Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children. - 1 Enoch 7:1-3

Go, say to the Watchers (angels) of heaven, who have sent you to pray for them, You ought to pray for men, and not men for you. Wherefore have you forsaken the lofty and holy heaven, (Jude: And the angels who did not keep their proper domain but left their own abode...) which endures for ever, and have lain with women; have defile yourselves with the daughters of men; have taken to yourselves wives; have acted like the sons of the earth, and have begotten an impious offspring?(Jude: having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh) You being spiritual, holy, and possessing a life which is eternal, have polluted yourselves with women; have begotten in carnal blood; have lusted in the blood of men; and have done as those who are flesh and blood do.These however die and perish.Therefore have I given to them wives, that they might cohabit with them; that sons might be born of them; and that this might be transacted upon earth.But you from the beginning were made spiritual, possessing a life which is eternal, and not subject to death for ever.Therefore I made not wives for you, because, being spiritual, your dwelling is in heaven. - 1 Enoch 15:1-7

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The Punishment of the Angels

Again the Lord said to Raphael, Bind Azazyel hand and foot; cast him into darkness; and opening the desert which is in Dudael, cast him in there.Throw upon him hurled and pointed stones, covering him with darkness; - 1Enoch 10:6,7

the Lord said, Go and announce his crime to Samyaza, and to the others who are with him, who have been associated with women, that they might be polluted with all their impurity. And when all their sons shall be slain, when they shall see the perdition of their beloved, bind them for seventy generations underneath the earth even to the day of judgment, and of consummation, until the judgment...- 1 Enoch 10:15

From this time forward, never shall you ascend into heaven; He has said, that on the earth He will bind you, as long as the world endures. - 1 Enoch 14:4

(2 Peter: For if Yahuwah did not spare the messengers who sinned, but put them into the deepest abyss of she'owl and delivered them into chains of darkness to be reserved for judgment...)

(Jude: ...He has reserved in eternal chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day)

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The Deluge

Then the Most High, the Great and Holy One spoke, And sent Uriel to the son of Lamech (Noah), Saying, Say to him in my name, Conceal yourself. Then explain to him the consummation which is about to take place; for all the earth shall perish; the waters of a deluge shall come over the whole earth, and all things which are in it shall be destroyed. - 1 Enoch 10:1-4

In those days shall punishment go forth from the Lord of spirits; and the receptacles of water which are above the heavens shall be opened, and the fountains likewise, which are under the heavens and under the earth.All the waters, which are in the heavens and above them, shall be mixed together.The water which is above heaven shall be the agent;And the water which is under the earth shall be the recipient: and all shall be destroyed who dwell upon earth, and who dwell under the extremities of heaven. By these means shall they understand the iniquity which they have committed on earth: and by these means shall they perish. - 1 Enoch 53:7-11

(2 Peter:...and did not spare the ancient world but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the irreverent...)

Here is where we may examine another interesting mention of the circumstances preceding the flood as compared to the sin of Sodom...

(Luke 17:26-29: And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man. They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. Likewise as it was also in the days of Lowt. They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built, but on the day that Lowt went out of Sedom it rained fire and brimstone from the sky and destroyed them all. )

with these other similar and descriptive verses concerning the same theme of ideas, perhaps there is a clearer idea provided here as to who "they" are in this instance in Luke...a peculiar and pointed list of carnal pleasures which were indulged in by "them" up until the point of the flood (eating, drinking, marriage).

Now returning to the initial description of the angels coming to Sodom where they are put up in Lot's house prior to Sodom's destruction...it is easier to understand that the abomination which the residence are about to perpetrate upon the angelic visitors has less to do with gender than it does with an attempted inter-species union. Though as i mentioned earlier, it is not made abundantly clear whether or not the angels were Obviously angels, the implication is, at least, that Lot knew it and if he was aware there is a fair chance that the residence of the city also knew what sort of creatures they were and their response to it (unlike the righteous response of Lot) was an unthinkably wicked one...they intended to knowingly sexually molest holy angels. This is logically followed by the reaction of the angels who, after blinding the perpetrators, make it clear to Lot that it was the last straw as far as YHWH was concerned and he and his family had to get out now...not later.

It is obvious that what had been going on in Sodom for some time which led to it's destruction was an ongoing practice of species boundary crossing...the question being with whom or what? Bestiality would fit the bill in some respects and no doubt occurred, yet they were immediately drawn toward angels when they arrived...they were a community very enamored with a "nostalgia" for the wicked, pre-flood world order. Since nephilim did exist post flood and thrived in the land which Israel eventually inherited, the objective was not simply to destroy a remnant nephil population or the destruction would have included more than just a couple of cities. It might be fair to say that Sodom was involved with an attempt to re-create the conditions prior to the flood socially as well as technologically, a theme which the whole world is set to attempt to achieve in these modern times.

And I will give to my two witnesses and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth." These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the 'Eloah of the earth. And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. These have power to shut the sky so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy and they have power over waters to turn them to blood and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire. When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that spiritually is called Sedom (Sodom) and Mitsrayim where also our Master was impaled - Revelation 11:3-8

[2cm1ui3ntyfx2]

Hi, it seems to me that it is simple answer , if Lot was pleading with men of Sodom to take his two daughters and to have sex with them and they refused ,I assume that men of Sodom were after homosexual sex with two messengers since angels take on masculine body. It is also unlikely that they recognised two messengers as angels , for they said "where are the men who came to you tonight". mbernat

[Prodigal Son]

Hi M.bernat,

 

There is maybe no doubt that the men of Sodom practiced homosexual activity but the question really is, what does "sodomy" really refer to biblically and what does Jude refer to in saying:

 

"as Sedom and Amorah and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example suffering the vengeance of eternal
fire."

 

Though those places are almost surely guilty of many types of sinful acts, the focus seems to be clearly on a union of "strange flesh" and not on a same sex union.

[2cm1ui3ntyfx2]

Thanks for your comment. Hetero means other and Jude does not specify what that other is.Homosexuality is strange for heterosexual man. Reading letter of Jude we  can see he is putting an emphasis  on punishment for all  those who disregard God, and sin of   fornication is one of these things.Personally I have  a problem with angels engaging in the same sin after the flood since all those fornicators were held captive by God in bottomless pit. Unless we can prove another rebellion in high places it is difficult to see how is that possible.(I know , giants in the Bible after the flood) You may have read the story of  Eve engaging in fornication with the serpent, but it only remains a hypothesis. My theory regarding giants after the flood  is different , I think Babel tower is the answer, but again it is only hypothesis.Greetings in Christ name. mbernat

[Bean]

hi.. some thoughts on this discussion.. homosexual behavior historically was a known and practised sin long before the time of Sodom and Gomorrah.. before the great flood "all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth" Gen. 6:12.. and "the wickedness of man was great in the earth.. every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was evil continually.." Gen. 6.5.

goddess-worship which centered around perverse sexual idolatry was the main theme of pre-flood cultures.. probably the most well-known being Nimrod's kingdom of Babylonia where Inanna (aka - Ishtar/ Astarte/ Ashteroth/ Isis/ Venus/ Aphrodite/ Diana/ Lilith/ Queen of Heaven/ 'the mother goddess' etc.) was worshipped.. Inanna worship in Babylonia included the service of male temple prostitutes.

Inanna, or Ishtar, is also known historically as the first human woman to marry one of the 'sons of God' spoken of in Genesis 6 and Enoch 6.. she agreed to a union with Shemyhaza, the leader of the 200 fallen Watchers, in exchange for him teaching her the sacred name of YHWH.. other women were taken in marriage by other Watchers.. the Nephilim were born.. and ultimately the entire world became corrupt.

by intermarrying with a fallen Watcher Ishtar became the first human to accept 'strange flesh'.. not the flesh of a member of the human race, but the flesh of a member of an other race - the angelic race.. below is a depiction of Inanna on a vase found in the ruins of Uruk (aka. Erech - one of Nimrod's cities of ancient Babylonia)

 

Inanna.. the supreme Sumerian goddess of love, sex and fertility is pictured nude, wearing the pyramid crown, and sporting a pair of wings.. the nudity representing sexual fertility.. the pyramid crown representing the power she attained to as the first flesh being to obtain the sacred name of YHWH.. and the wings representing her union with the angel Shemyhaza, by whom she obtained The Name.

the same goddess worship that had swept through Mesopotamia before the flood was alive and well in Sodom.. Sodom was an epicenter of worship for the goddess who obtained power through her union with the strange flesh of the angelic Watcher named Shemyhaza.. and it was specifically known for having enthusiastically elevated this sinful worship to a prestigious height.

the rituals included the age-old service of male temple prostitutes.. something Israel is warned against in Deuteronomy 23:17. "there shall be no whore (qĕdeshah - female temple prostitute) of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite (qadesh - male temple prostitute) of the sons of Israel." - but above all else, Sodom's religion was centered on Ishtar.

Abraham recognized the messengers for who they were.. Lot likewise recognized the strangers as angels.. and Sodom was a big city.. it's difficult to imagine that the entire populous would riot over 2 regular guys.. it is easy to imagine though that the 2 messengers were recognized for what they were by the population.. and how an entire city would rush to one man's door with demands for him to deliver 2 angels to them in order for the people to carnally know them - an act whereby the citizens were no doubt hoping they would gain power.. just as their goddess obtained her power through a union with 'strange flesh'.

homosexuality is a sin and sin is natural for the flesh.. human nature is to commit sin.. although it could be said that the opposite human sex would be 'strange' to heterosexual men.. a deeper look reveals that sin is not strange to humanity.. it is so germain to the flesh that we have all been born with it since Adam and Eve's fall in Eden.. and that 'strange flesh' would more correctly refer to angelic flesh.. 'other' flesh.. especially considering the events of Genesis and Enoch 6 where the first marriages between angels and humans are described, and the ultimate corruption it bred.

Sodom was greatly wicked in many ways and homosexuality was practised there.. but Sodom is defined as being punished for 'going after strange flesh'.. and the focus of the biblical account is centered on Sodom's demand of sexual immorality specifically with angels.. a thing which would be greatley desired among the pagans there who worshipped the goddess who got her power through her union with an angel.

we know humans were mixing with the 'strange flesh' of angels before the flood.. an act which led to the cause of the flood itself.. and we know humans demanded to mix with the strange flesh of angels in Sodom.. consider Luke 17:26-30.

"And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed."

some links to articles on this site that may be helpful:

The Validity of 1 Enoch describes the 2 separate angelic rebellions (Satan's rebellion and the later rebellion of the 200 Watchers during the time of Jared)

Of Serpent Seeds and Biased Doctrines: What is the Truth of It? refuting the notion that Eve had a sexual union with Satan

The Spirit of the Liliths in Modern Society gives information on Ishtar and her place in ancient and modern mystery religion

Peace in Yahushua

[2cm1ui3ntyfx2]

Hi Bean, I think you misunderstood my comments. The problem is not pre-diluvian descent of angels but what happened after the flood.I 'v read Book of Enoch many years ago with a conclusion , it speaks the truth regarding Nephilim and origins of evil in prediluvian world. Everything what happened during time of Noah was done by God to destroy that civilisation with punishment for perpetrators and new beginnings for men not to be repeated again .According to you  after the flood new cohabitation took place between angels and women. Give me some proof for your ideas. Perhaps Sodomites were after strange flesh but soon were destroyed by God, as were Canaanites and other enemies of God.  

[Cyprium]

Hello M.Bernat...

 

I think perhaps there is a misunderstanding...maybe i can help clear it up.

 

"The problem is not pre-diluvian descent of angels but what happened after the flood.I 'v read Book of Enoch many years ago with a conclusion , it speaks the truth regarding Nephilim and origins of evil in prediluvian world. Everything what happened during time of Noah was done by God to destroy that civilisation with punishment for perpetrators and new beginnings for men not to be repeated again .According to you  after the flood new cohabitation took place between angels and women. Give me some proof for your ideas."

 

I just want to clarify that i was not supporting the theory of a third rebellion of angelic beings post flood who also cohabitated with women in this article. I don't know of any evidence to support that and i believe that Bean's reply was not suggesting that, but only pointing out the relation between the sin of the Watchers and the sin of Sodom (why they are mentioned in proximate context in Jude). The aim of my article was the same...i was not attempting to say that nore angels fell in that same way post flood.

 

There are nephilim existing post flood...that much is in scripture, however their presence doesn't suggest to me a third rebellion. Here is an article which explains in more detail why there would have been nephilim post flood that might help better fill in the blanks:

http://timenolonger.ning.com/forum/topics/the-beast-that-rises-out-of

 

Also...as might be obvious by one of the links Bean supplied...i don't support the theory that Eve had intercourse with the serpent. I think Genesis is far too straightforward about the parentage of Cain and too unambiguous about the fall of man itself to lend any support to the fruit = sex with Satan theory.

[Bean]

'Bean's reply was.. pointing out the relation between the sin of the Watchers and the sin of Sodom'

yes.. the 'big deal' about Sodom was not the homosexuality but rather the desire of strange, angelic flesh..

 

'According to you  after the flood new cohabitation took place between angels and women.' -

that is not actually in my reply.. however, Genesis 6:4 states 'there were nephilim in the earth in those days, and also after that..'

[2cm1ui3ntyfx2]

Hi Cyprium, thanks ,  I have read in one of the articles about the  serpent's real identity. I believe it was a seraphim mentioned as the one fitting the position. Personally I think  we can stipulate but Rev20 v2 tells all. One of these hypothetical stories is a story of Lilith I spotted in this site. From my perspective mythology is an interesting subject and good reading as well but can we create a foundation for anything solid (truth) from it.I would like to ask you , if I can recall correctly in one of the articles I have read that all mankind has angelic genes in them, where is it from?I am not sure if you are the author of that article. You pointed out to me  another article in regard to post flood  nephilim which is full of  ideas taken from mythology. I don't follow mythology. Mixing mythology and Word of God is  dangerous.In The "Alien" lie you wrote"Having antiquity seemingly on the side of such theories leads wayward seekers down a path of assumption about the credibility of pagan mythology. As it is often stated that pagan mythologies "pre-date"judeo-Christian teachings, it is then held that the greater antiquityof certain pagan writings ought to be assumed more correct". Please understand where I am  coming from, "test all things".Beans article suggests other than homosexual  sin in the story of  Lot and two messengers, I just don't agree with it. Greetings in Christ name. mbernat

[Cyprium]

"One of these hypothetical stories is a story of Lilith I spotted in this site. From my perspective mythology is an interesting subject and good reading as well but can we create a foundation for anything solid (truth) from it."

  

The article on Lilith does not focus on any story taken from mythology, rather it is identifying a biblical concept from which stories of a woman named Lilith derived from. It is identifying the concept of goddess worship and mythologies surrounding that with the sirens which are mentioned in 1 Enoch. I agree that mythologies of Pagan cultures are not a foundation for finding an accurate account of true events...the foundation is scripture. Mythologies, however aren't "made up" tales either. Though not accurate...mythologies derived out of historical accounts. Historical accounts are rarely accurate many millennia after the fact or even centuries after the fact...sometimes we don't even get a true story the next day in the news paper...what we have are bits and pieces we can either find support or contradiction for in better sources.

 

The idea that mankind has come a long way from ignorance and superstition...that cultures of old were given to weaving fantastic lies which comprised the entire foundation of their culture isn't really sensible. Their stories were based on something...which is how we can look at the mythologies of some 600 cultures around the globe and point out that each having a story that includes visitors from heaven and a flood..there's obviously something to that. The same principle applies to other various details of mythologies....when you see it repeated globally..when it is checked against the measuring rod of scripture and there is a parallel..it is logical to conclude that there was a real event, person or place which is referred to.

 

"I would like to ask you , if I can recall correctly in one of the articles I have read that all mankind has angelic genes in them, where is it from?"

  

All mankind having the DNA of fallen angels is speculation on my part...there's no way to know that, however the Earth is a melting pot these days and i'm not sure if there is any really unmixed, isolated ethnicity still in existence. As for at least some of mankind having the DNA of fallen angels...no extra biblical source is required to support that. There are clear references to post flood nephilim...those people were not ever entirely killed off. As to how that bloodline came past the flood. Here is something to consider... all life on dry land was destroyed....was all sea life destroyed also? If so..Noah had to take aboard the ark creatures like whales, dolphins and fish. Since this is not practically possible...it's safe to say sea life wasn't destroyed.

 

The watchers are said to have corrupted the DNA of mankind as well as animals...they created a variety of transgenic creatures, some of these being part angelic and part animal.  With all this in mind...it's not such a crazy notion that the impending destruction of Earth by water would be an excellent reason to purposely create aquatic transgenics who would survive the flood. The bloodline survived the flood somehow and though the scriptures are silent as to how...other theories have no good basis in practicality or historical data . Here is where we have multiple cultures across great distances all reporting encounters with aquatic transgenic beings who supplied them with knowledge of the sort that was taught pre flood. I don't believe in coincidences...even when they're more convenient.

 

"In The "Alien" lie you wrote"Having antiquity seemingly on the side of such theories leads wayward seekers down a path of assumption about the credibility of pagan mythology. As it is often stated that pagan mythologies "pre-date"judeo-Christian teachings, it is then held that the greater antiquity of certain pagan writings ought to be assumed more correct". "

  

My point here is specifically answering to modern New Age and Pagan beliefs...people who argue for the inherent superiority of Pagan beliefs over Christian because of their antiquity. Pagan religion does not pre-date our faith...they predate our recorded scriptures. Mythologies, however, as i said, aren't made up..they are the "spun" version of the real event..the "Fox News" of the ancient past. They don't retain the true story...but they do retain pieces of real information. If we can investigate the facts behind a Fox News story, investigating the facts behind a myth is not much different.

 

"Beans article suggests other than homosexual  sin in the story of  Lot and two messengers, I just don't agree with it."

  

I'm not sure if you mean to refer to this article "Angels and the Mysterious Sin of Sodom" when you say "Bean's Article". I wrote the article..each author's icon will be beside the post that is theirs, so that's a helpful way to keep track of who wrote what. 

 

The point is not to say that there Was no homosexual sin in Sodom..or that the sin those men meant to perpetrate wasn't homosexual sin...(obviously it was). The point is to show the connection which occurs repeatedly between the reasons Sodom was judged and the mention of angels being judged. If it were only that both of these groups were sinners...the theme of proximity wouldn't repeat so precisely...you might find a different group substituted in one of those places. There is a pointed attempt to Compare the groups to each other.

http://timenolonger.ning.com/forum/topics/a-history-that-cant-be-ig...

 

Peace