The Mark, The Number and The Name

[Prodigal Son]

there is much discussion taking place between believers about the mark of the beast now and many expect that mark to be in the form of a microchip implant. that is perhaps, an appropriate expectation as we see much focus in the
world's system on methods with which they might track people and what people do.
it may also make quite a bit of sense to imagine that there could be a time in
the near future when the world currencies which are struggling are replaced with
a global cashless system that might use microchips to conduct financial
transactions.

 

i think in spite of what seems like the most obvious way the mark of the beast might take form, we should not so quickly decide that we know these things for fact. it is wise to remember that Satan is subtle in all his ways and would
seek to do what the people of YHWH would least expect. it is also true that
believers in Him have focused upon the mark but have neglected to notice that
Revelation does not only speak of a mark, but also a number and a name.

 

 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast or the number
of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number
of the beast, for it is the number of a man. His number is 666. - Revelation 13:
15-18

 

" no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast or the number of his name"

 

by this we should perhaps consider that not every person who pledges loyalty to the beast will have to accept a mark. some will be accepting a mark, some the name of the beast, and some the number of his name. it is important to
understand this because it is very possible that many believers feel that so
long as they do not accept any sort of mark, they have not given themselves to
the beast, but this is not necessarily so. we must not only identify what might
be the mark, but we must also identify what is his name and what is his number
what it means to have these in order to buy or sell.

 

would it be so difficult to fool many who believe they follow Messiah in to accepting a number or a name in some way? nearly every person in this nation already is marked by a number, the social security number. what if the number of
the beast came in the form of something which seemed to only update the system
already in place? His people must be wise as serpents as well as harmless as
doves and be wary and ready to resist should any new thing become mandatory in
order to carry out financial transactions. an inability to buy and sell perhaps
seems frightening but He has said He will provide for our needs and trusting
this in these last days will become a choice between eternal life and eternal
death.

[Kathy]

'Mark of the beast' idea back on the table
Charlie Butts - 4/21/2010 5:00:00 AM
Objections are being raised over a proposed immigration reform measure that involves a provision calling for a national ID card.
Senators Charles Schumer (D-New York) and Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina) have proposed the biometric national ID card, but a coalition of groups has written a letter voicing opposition to it. John Whitehead, president of the Rutherford Institute, tells OneNewsNow that everyone seeking employment will be required to present the biometric ID, and employers will have to use scanners to verify citizenship.

"It will contain your fingerprint, your retina scan information, even a mapping of the veins in the top of your head and other information that is uniquely identifiable to you as an individual," Whitehead explains.

Personal and financial records would be included on the ID card as well, so the Rutherford Institute president warns that the idea could eventually result in government-issued radio frequency identification (RFID) tags which would allow the government to track people. If this bill is passed, the Rutherford Institute plans to file for religious objections.

"As we fought cases on behalf of Social Security cards, those cases are very hard to win," Whitehead notes. "A lot of people do not want a Social Security number, [and those are] very, very difficult cases to win."

When the biometric ID idea was proposed during his administration, President Ronald Reagan referred to the cards as "the mark of the beast." Whitehead adds that the best strategy is to block the bill's passage now rather than wait to fight it in court.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=981002

[Bean]

Thanks for bringing up the fact that one of Satan's methods is to subtly deceive by the unexpected.. considering he is the evil master of deceit it's sensible to ask "who will be deceived by a universal microchip?" Non-believers (especially under 'strong delusion') would probably have no qualms surrendering to a physical mark device..

but really, what believer would be tricked or deceived by the microchip - one of the longest-touted possibilities for the 'mark'? furthermore.. who would go, in an effort toward total universal implementation, into the Amazon etc to inject the unknowns and unfounds there?

sometimes as the resident of an industrialized nation, i forget that Satan's plan is universal and that his universalism includes every single individual on the planet.. whether they are in a busy US city or a remote South American jungle.. and Satan certainly has "something for everyone" so to speak.. i've wondered before about 'his name' and the 'number of his name' and what that might entail..

now is a great time to consider that the specifics we are expecting are perhaps the opposite specifics the Enemy will implement.. we know the basics of Satan's 3-pronged attack to seal the deceived.. his seal (the mark, his name, or the number of his name) will be for every person and it will regulate 'buying' and 'selling'.. apart from that, as you said, we don't have any concrete information.. but just knowing to be on guard for the unexpected, as you mentioned, as He said, to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves, is a help.

i've heard quite a few people say "I know Obama is the Antichrist" or "I know microchips are the mark of the beast".. but the truth is that until we see it happen.. we don't know it for sure.. and considering the stealth of Satan it's wise to deduce that we wouldn't necessarily "see it coming" specifically.

Yahushua told us we would be able through the Holy Spirit to discern the times and it's also wise for us to remain within those parameters He set. Good to know that He is with us through all of this.

[Bean]

"...what if the number of the beast came in the form of something which seemed to only update the system already in place?"
- Prodigal Son 04.22.10

"...passage of the CFPA will settle the whole ID card thing once and for all. There will be no need for them because if you have a bank account, you already have a number and the CFPA will have it."
- Capitol Confidential 04.29.10

According to the Capitol Confidential source :

"Subtitle G of the Dodd discussion draft bill requires that records be maintained and reported “for each branch, automated teller machine at which deposits are accepted, and other deposit taking service facility with respect to any financial institution, the financial institution shall maintain a record of the number and dollar amounts of deposit accounts of customers.”"

"What’s worse, banks will be required to submit these records to the new super regulatory agency called the Consumer Financial Protection Agency (page 1041). The CFPA will be allowed to use this information for any purpose “as permitted by law” under CFPA rules—rules set by CFPA themselves."

"So, if the CFPA Czar see’s fit, information about your deposit account activity could be shared with the IRS, immigration officials, state officials, or any other entity that the Administration and their various Czar’s think beneficial."

"...if the government is authorized to collect and utilize data, there is no way to prevent the government as a whole or certain individuals within the government from using the information against the citizens."

"But passage of the CFPA will settle the whole ID card thing once and for all. There will be no need for them because if you have a bank account, you already have a number and the CFPA will have it."

Revelation 18:4 is perhaps ringing louder than ever in the ears of many employer-forced direct deposit users.. the growing trend toward Employer Mandated Direct Deposit programs has played a foundational role in the assurance that banks are used by a large portion of individuals who would normally not use them; and now, even more sinister, the probability that the beast's number could quite literally be "directly deposited" into those bank users' accounts.

"Come out of her, My people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues."

"..her plagues will come in one day. Death, and mourning, and famine, and she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is Yahuwah 'Eloah who judges her."

"And the merchants of the Earth will weep and mourn over her, for no one buys their merchandise anymore."

"Merchandise of gold and silver.. ..and bodies and souls of men."

Rev 18:4,8,11,12

Capitol Confidential : "anonymous sources in the halls of power"
View CC articles : biggovernment.com

Yahushua answered them.. "These things I have spoken to you that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But be of good cheer! I have overcome the world."
- John 16:33

[David A. Peck]

Funny thing is, the number of the beast which is the number of man has been documented in Papyrus 115 as being "616" instead of "666".
I dont know for fact which one is right, but I keep a watchful eye.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_115

[Cyprium]

David...very true..the bible never directly mentions what form the mark of the beast will take. It only describes the consequences of taking it and not taking it. This is why we, as believers, need to remain mentally and spiritually prepared to recognize Any form the mark could take.

 

I believe there are some very good theories on what that mark might be but they should remain theories and not doctrines that we marry our faith to or we could be as easily deceived as anyone.

 

I'm familiar with the 616 translation of the number. I also agree we should keep an open mind here as well, though i would add that evidence leans to the side of the number 666 and that figure has old testament references, whereas 616 does not.

[David A. Peck]

@Cyprium
yes there is a few in the OT:
1king 10:14
2CH 9:13
unless im mistaken those are the only other references to "six hundred three score and six"
which can also mean 600, 60, and 6.
which could represent 600(first name) 60(middle name) 6 (last name).
again im not sure the valitity of any of them.

[Prodigal Son]

New ID rules would threaten citizens' rights

"Sensible immigration reform will strengthen American society and economy. But it must also respect the rights of U.S. citizens and those aspiring to join them.

Buried in the comprehensive immigration reform legislation before the Senate are obscure provisions that impose on Americans expansive national identification systems, tied to electronic verification schemes. Under the guise of "reform," these trample fundamental rights and freedoms.

Requirements in Senate Bill 744 for mandatory worker IDs and electronic verification remove the right of citizens to take employment and "give" it back as a privilege only when proper proof is presented and the government agrees. Such systems are inimical to a free society and are costly to the economy and treasury.

Any citizen wanting to take a job would face the regulation that his or her digitized high-resolution passport or driver's license photo be collected and stored centrally in a Department of Homeland Security Citizenship and Immigration Services database.

The pictures in the national database would then need to be matched against the job applicant's government-issued "enhanced" ID card, using a Homeland Security-mandated facial-recognition "photo tool." Only when those systems worked perfectly could the new hire take the job.

Immigrant employees would probably have to get biometric (based on body measurements like fingerprint scans and digital images) worker ID cards. Social Security cards may soon become biometric as well. Any citizen or immigrant whose digital image in the Homeland Security databank did not match the one embedded in their government-issued ID would be without a job and benefits..."

Full Article: http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/13/opinion/sobel-id-immigration/

[Sinclair]

It could be any and all of that or more advanced versions thereof. Maybe could be things that haven't been introduced yet. Could be a lot of things. I think the one way we'll know it is that it represents some kind of loyalty to the leader or government in power. I can see it being explained by the Powers That Be as something which signifies that you are not a terrorist of some sort. So those who would not get it would be seen by all the world as dissidents and potential terrorist threats.

But then, we're already a terrorist threat just because we discussed this here, right?

[m edwards]

¹⁶ And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

¹⁷ And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

¹⁸ Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

................................................

Here is what I see...it states IN his hand and IN his forehead.......Whats in your head?...brain, intellect,..thought process.

Whats in your hand?.....your labor...your trade...your commerce.  Yes it could also be a type of "smart-card" or such

To me this says those shall be marked by what they think, believe, strive/work for.

It  humanism......that man in this "new Age'...higher dimension has transcended to god-like status and the STATE is all powerful and all KNOWING...   (Orwell s 1984)?

Its the culmination of the same LIE the "Shinning One" sold to Eve in the Garden. That man is god and god is in all...thus we are god....Greatest lie ever told!

The Hand......what or who do you work for?  Do you work for others?....do you work to try to search out the TRUTH of our FATHER?...or do you work to carry forth this NWO agenda? Working for "da-man" so you can pay the cable bill and for the new Big Screen TV....or maybe your Portfolio. 

Its either or!!! A person can not be a fence sitter.....by not choosing a side..you have chosen already. Ye can not serve two masters.

The REVELATION also tells us that FATHER has "MARK" and "SEAL" HIS true children.  Are we to expect a physical mark or manifestation of a seal on us in a physical form?  The Scripture does not say that......Nor does it say a "PHYSICAL" mark will be placed on the non-believer........scripture interprets scripture.

We must deal with this in a spiritual/ethereal point of view. The Angels dont need to see a physical mark to know who is who.....Man on the other hand looks thru a glass dimly....he needs actual marks...evidence...  But its not about man deciding who is who here...is it?

Father says we are sealed....how are we sealed?....we are sealed with His SPIRIT which is CHRIST in us..

The lost are sealed the same way but with their fathers "Mark", sin, in them..

CHRIST knew the Pharisees....they were marked,..but not with a physical mark but a spiritual mark of their father shatan.,..or the shining one.

We are marked and sanctified (set apart) by where our loyalty, devotion ,Faith and in who our TRUST resides!

So too is a non-believer....albeit by his actions and faith or lack of.

Remember...let SCRIPTURE interpret Scripture for our FATHER whom is ORIGINATOR and JUDGE of All things knows our very hearts and intent.

Be ye Hidden in CHRIST!  SO be it!

[Cyprium]

Orwell's book, by the way, just skyrocketed in sales following the NSA revelations that weren't all that revealing..lol. There's a generation gap between those of us who knew that book back when it was "frightening fiction" for most people and the younger generation...as it now becomes all too close to real.

Part of the transhumanist agenda, which is born out of the lie Satan told to Eve, is to become immortal and godlike in every way through humanly achievable means...including all manner of technology that's public and some that isn't.

The idea that gene therapy will introduce "improved" traits to humanity, the notion of creating machine replacements for human body parts, storing minds (and perhaps spirits) for later incarnation...all of those fit with the plan to "become like gods".

I agree that there are many employees of the man who are, right now, ignoring their own conscience to get that pay check and that will be something that only becomes broader as more jobs are available in government sectors than elsewhere. We also might start to skirt the borders of morality when our taxes are taken to fund immoral projects and we continue to pay them. We're on the brink of a point in time when believers probably have to start making decisions which are difficult. The choice of who one works for within the system will become narrower and narrower until it's just one choice...and a bad one at that.

I do believe that there will be a physical, mandatory indicator of who is and who is not a part of that system. Though angels do not need any physical indicators of who is who...humans do and humans will be the enforcers of a one world government system. That indicator may or may not be visable, but it's reasonable to postulate that it will probably be detectable by some physical means.

The wave of persecution that will come toward believers is some evidence int hat direction. The powers that be will need some means by which to separate theirs from His and whom to organize their persecution against.

Looking at how people are identified, numbered and given government files at this point and the grid with which all this works...it is a pattern of behavior that our enemy has to attempt to be omniscient like the gods they aspire to be. There isn't any other way but by such a grid and technology that they can achieve this over the populace.

Another interesting facet that is merely a little bit of theory at this point...scripture speaks of a point where all things hidden are revealed. We mostly think in terms of a point after Messiah's return with this but, there is also the possibility of a rising level of revelation prior to that which brings the world to a point of having these lines of loyalty so clearly marked that no one can innocently "make a mistake". What was only on the inside of our hearts and minds at one time becomes a badge for good or for evil that all creation can witness.

None of us have all the answers to these things yet, and i think it's most important that we all keep that skepticism alive enough in ourselves that we are able to define the thing when the time has come. I never say "i know it will be..." in this matter..because i don't want to put myself in such a position of self assuredness that i miss what else it could be. We should take all these things into consideration and trust in His Spirit to sound the alarm when the enemy and his tactics approach us. Thank you for sharing your thoughts...
m edwards said:

¹⁶ And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

¹⁷ And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

¹⁸ Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

................................................

Here is what I see...it states IN his hand and IN his forehead.......Whats in your head?...brain, intellect,..thought process.

Whats in your hand?.....your labor...your trade...your commerce.  Yes it could also be a type of "smart-card" or such

To me this says those shall be marked by what they think, believe, strive/work for.

It  humanism......that man in this "new Age'...higher dimension has transcended to god-like status and the STATE is all powerful and all KNOWING...   (Orwell s 1984)?

Its the culmination of the same LIE the "Shinning One" sold to Eve in the Garden. That man is god and god is in all...thus we are god....Greatest lie ever told!

The Hand......what or who do you work for?  Do you work for others?....do you work to try to search out the TRUTH of our FATHER?...or do you work to carry forth this NWO agenda? Working for "da-man" so you can pay the cable bill and for the new Big Screen TV....or maybe your Portfolio. 

Its either or!!! A person can not be a fence sitter.....by not choosing a side..you have chosen already. Ye can not serve two masters.

The REVELATION also tells us that FATHER has "MARK" and "SEAL" HIS true children.  Are we to expect a physical mark or manifestation of a seal on us in a physical form?  The Scripture does not say that......Nor does it say a "PHYSICAL" mark will be placed on the non-believer........scripture interprets scripture.

We must deal with this in a spiritual/ethereal point of view. The Angels dont need to see a physical mark to know who is who.....Man on the other hand looks thru a glass dimly....he needs actual marks...evidence...  But its not about man deciding who is who here...is it?

Father says we are sealed....how are we sealed?....we are sealed with His SPIRIT which is CHRIST in us..

The lost are sealed the same way but with their fathers "Mark", sin, in them..

CHRIST knew the Pharisees....they were marked,..but not with a physical mark but a spiritual mark of their father shatan.,..or the shining one.

We are marked and sanctified (set apart) by where our loyalty, devotion ,Faith and in who our TRUST resides!

So too is a non-believer....albeit by his actions and faith or lack of.

Remember...let SCRIPTURE interpret Scripture for our FATHER whom is ORIGINATOR and JUDGE of All things knows our very hearts and intent.

Be ye Hidden in CHRIST!  SO be it!

[m edwards]

Cyprium indeed as you stated...none know for sure all things.  Its why I started my comment with  "Here is what I see"   and also said" We see dimly thru a glass"

I see both scenarios leading to the same eventual outcome.  If whats in your heart is the Pure....you will reject the physical mark if it comes to that.  And vice versa take it if the heart is filled with lies and deceit/deception.  I see it as one and the same...for when it comes to the point of an actual "mark" then the lines are in fact already drawn and the hour of indecision has past.

You said, that in light of scripture......things will be manifested unto the light. Indeed for CHRIST even said what was done in secret will be made known....done in the dark brought to lite...and so forth.  I tend to believe that also pertains to HIM making known to HIS children the "TRUTH" of the scripture in its fullness, as opposed to what we have now....mainly flawed or partial translations....partial truths and scholarly commentaries.

....................................................

These are the type of threads I enjoy....those where we can engage in meaningful discourse without the useless arguments of who is correct or who has the biggest Bible. Its conversations such as these where the SPIRIT can actually teach us all if we use humility and meekness as we try to understand our FATHERS instructions

Of this one thing I am sure.....The day of Jacobs troubles are near and our Redemption draweth nigh. I feel time speeding up so to say....even the birth pangs are more rapid and more close. Events are unfolding at break-neck speed.  It is said we dont know the "time nor the Day"....but we do know the "Season".

Thanks for your response Cyprium.

Be Ye Hidden in CHRIST!  So be it.

[Prodigal Son]

"The idea that gene therapy will introduce "improved" traits to humanity, the notion of creating machine replacements for human body parts, storing minds (and perhaps spirits) for later incarnation...all of those fit with the plan to "become like gods"."

I Found this article today:

"We'll be uploading our entire MINDS to computers by 2045 and our bodies will be replaced by machines within 90 years, Google expert claims

Ray Kurzweil, director of engineering at Google, believes we will be able to upload our entire brains to computers within the next 32 years - an event known as singularity
Our 'fragile' human body parts will be replaced by machines by the turn of the century
And if these predictions comes true, it could make humans immortal..."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2344398/Google-futur...


Cyprium said:

Orwell's book, by the way, just skyrocketed in sales following the NSA revelations that weren't all that revealing..lol. There's a generation gap between those of us who knew that book back when it was "frightening fiction" for most people and the younger generation...as it now becomes all too close to real.

Part of the transhumanist agenda, which is born out of the lie Satan told to Eve, is to become immortal and godlike in every way through humanly achievable means...including all manner of technology that's public and some that isn't.

The idea that gene therapy will introduce "improved" traits to humanity, the notion of creating machine replacements for human body parts, storing minds (and perhaps spirits) for later incarnation...all of those fit with the plan to "become like gods".

I agree that there are many employees of the man who are, right now, ignoring their own conscience to get that pay check and that will be something that only becomes broader as more jobs are available in government sectors than elsewhere. We also might start to skirt the borders of morality when our taxes are taken to fund immoral projects and we continue to pay them. We're on the brink of a point in time when believers probably have to start making decisions which are difficult. The choice of who one works for within the system will become narrower and narrower until it's just one choice...and a bad one at that.

I do believe that there will be a physical, mandatory indicator of who is and who is not a part of that system. Though angels do not need any physical indicators of who is who...humans do and humans will be the enforcers of a one world government system. That indicator may or may not be visable, but it's reasonable to postulate that it will probably be detectable by some physical means.

The wave of persecution that will come toward believers is some evidence int hat direction. The powers that be will need some means by which to separate theirs from His and whom to organize their persecution against.

Looking at how people are identified, numbered and given government files at this point and the grid with which all this works...it is a pattern of behavior that our enemy has to attempt to be omniscient like the gods they aspire to be. There isn't any other way but by such a grid and technology that they can achieve this over the populace.

Another interesting facet that is merely a little bit of theory at this point...scripture speaks of a point where all things hidden are revealed. We mostly think in terms of a point after Messiah's return with this but, there is also the possibility of a rising level of revelation prior to that which brings the world to a point of having these lines of loyalty so clearly marked that no one can innocently "make a mistake". What was only on the inside of our hearts and minds at one time becomes a badge for good or for evil that all creation can witness.

None of us have all the answers to these things yet, and i think it's most important that we all keep that skepticism alive enough in ourselves that we are able to define the thing when the time has come. I never say "i know it will be..." in this matter..because i don't want to put myself in such a position of self assuredness that i miss what else it could be. We should take all these things into consideration and trust in His Spirit to sound the alarm when the enemy and his tactics approach us. Thank you for sharing your thoughts...
m edwards said:

¹⁶ And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

¹⁷ And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

¹⁸ Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

................................................

Here is what I see...it states IN his hand and IN his forehead.......Whats in your head?...brain, intellect,..thought process.

Whats in your hand?.....your labor...your trade...your commerce.  Yes it could also be a type of "smart-card" or such

To me this says those shall be marked by what they think, believe, strive/work for.

It  humanism......that man in this "new Age'...higher dimension has transcended to god-like status and the STATE is all powerful and all KNOWING...   (Orwell s 1984)?

Its the culmination of the same LIE the "Shinning One" sold to Eve in the Garden. That man is god and god is in all...thus we are god....Greatest lie ever told!

The Hand......what or who do you work for?  Do you work for others?....do you work to try to search out the TRUTH of our FATHER?...or do you work to carry forth this NWO agenda? Working for "da-man" so you can pay the cable bill and for the new Big Screen TV....or maybe your Portfolio. 

Its either or!!! A person can not be a fence sitter.....by not choosing a side..you have chosen already. Ye can not serve two masters.

The REVELATION also tells us that FATHER has "MARK" and "SEAL" HIS true children.  Are we to expect a physical mark or manifestation of a seal on us in a physical form?  The Scripture does not say that......Nor does it say a "PHYSICAL" mark will be placed on the non-believer........scripture interprets scripture.

We must deal with this in a spiritual/ethereal point of view. The Angels dont need to see a physical mark to know who is who.....Man on the other hand looks thru a glass dimly....he needs actual marks...evidence...  But its not about man deciding who is who here...is it?

Father says we are sealed....how are we sealed?....we are sealed with His SPIRIT which is CHRIST in us..

The lost are sealed the same way but with their fathers "Mark", sin, in them..

CHRIST knew the Pharisees....they were marked,..but not with a physical mark but a spiritual mark of their father shatan.,..or the shining one.

We are marked and sanctified (set apart) by where our loyalty, devotion ,Faith and in who our TRUST resides!

So too is a non-believer....albeit by his actions and faith or lack of.

Remember...let SCRIPTURE interpret Scripture for our FATHER whom is ORIGINATOR and JUDGE of All things knows our very hearts and intent.

Be ye Hidden in CHRIST!  SO be it!